Children under a Palm Tree Painting - A mother fights for Justice
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Fake or Real Masterpiece
The Art world is a mysterious journey that can take you back in time. Not only can it tell the story of the Artist, but if you look a bit closer, it can reveal a story of intrigue, greed or family feuds. When an Artist paints, he is thinking about the subject, but not of the aftermath. Little does he know that one day his picture will cause a battle that not only involves the Law Courts, but also will involve the greatest Auction House of Today. Sotheby's.
The story starts on a day way back in the 1980's. Tony Varney, a fisherman and his daughter Selina, had gone fishing at his local spot, in County Cork, Ireland. On the way back, they happened to walk past a Rubbish Dump. This is a place where everyone comes to throw away all their old garbage. TV's, sofa's, chairs and broken pieces of rubbish that they no longer want.
As they walked past, Tony spotted just outside the dump, a few old pictures thrown down on the ground. They didn't have any frames, and if he had left them there, they would have been ruined by the rain. Tony liked collecting things, in fact he has quite a collection of old pictures and other objects, that he likes to keep. Mainly bought at garage sales, charity shops and so on. So, leaning down, he brushed of the dirt, and decided to take them home to keep them safe from ruin.
Then for the next 20 years he forgot about them.
Then in May 2008, he decided to take them to the Antiques Roadshow in Althorp, Northampton England. This is a popular TV program made by the BBC.
When Tony Arrived, he was told that the other pictures were not valuable, but there was one that could well be worth in the excess of 30,000 pounds, approx 50,000 dollars. As you can imagine, he was stunned. He learned that the work, Children Under a Palm Tree, had most likely been painted by Winslow Homer. A very important water colourist in America in the 19th Century.
After the initial shock, Tony decided to let the Antiques Roadshow investigate how such a great Painting could end up on a rubbish dump in Ireland.
So they set out to try and track down it's History. And of course figure out if it was a fake or the real thing.
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A Very Important Piece
After investigation, they found that the painting was indeed an authentic Winslow Homer. Taking the search further they realised that one of the other paintings found, had a connection to Homer, and the search was on to try and find out more about the story.
At the same time, they decided to put it up for sale at Sotheby's.
At this point, there wasn't any reason to think that there would be any problem with the sale of the Painting. Nobody had ever reported it missing, or stolen. As far as Tony was concerned it was just another pretty water colour that happened to have been thrown away. In fact Tony Varney and Selina, were more interested in the history of the piece. After twenty long years of collecting dust in a cupboard, they thought it was time that someone else had a chance to own this wonderful Painting.
Selina is a part time carer, and has four children. They are not a wealthy family, and Selina was really excited to think that she could use the money for the children to help them with their future. She was really looking forward to the sale, not just for the money, but because of the whole experience. Nothing like this had ever happened to her. So this was an exciting time.
Then it got even better. Selina and Tony were given the great news. The painting was in fact worth more.
A lot more.
It was well on the way to being sold for 150,000 pounds!
Who was Winslow Homer the Artist?
Winslow Homer was a landscape artist. Born on February 24 1836, he was well known for painting marine subjects. He also practised printmaking.
Being self taught, he practised with water colours and started his career as a commercial illustrator. He soon turned his talent to oil painting. Being most profficient in both water colours and oil, he soon became very well known.
In 1859 he opened a studio in New York City. For a few years he attended The National Academy of Design, and then went on to study with Frederic Rondel, who taught him the basics of Painting. He died on September 29 1910.
Work by Winslow Homer
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Myrtle Grove
In 2009, Selina and her father packed their case and headed off to New York. The Painting was going up for sale at Sotheby's. Everything was in place, the picture was ready, and all the catalogues had been sent out weeks before. There shouldn't have been a problem. But then out of the blue, Selina received a phone call.
Somehow, there had been a claim on the Painting!
The descendants of Sir Henry Arthur Blake, who was a British Colonial administrator, back in the 19th Century, stated that the painting was of Sir Henry's children, so therefore the painting still belonged to them!
Evidently they claim that it had been in their family for generations, and had been stolen years ago. Homer had Painted the picture when they had all met up abroad. Homer had then given their descendants the Painting as a gift. But the only trouble was that when the relatives were interviewed they kept coming up with a different story.
Lies and More Lies
On searching for the history of the painting, Sotheby's had managed to find the Blake family, and explained to them about the find. At this point, Sotheby's had been in contact with Mrs. Blake, and she was told about the Painting. She had also been given the Auction Catalogue which shows clearly the Painting and the sale price. She was very surprised to hear about it. And at the beginning, the family were not interested in the Painting. They explained that they had no record of a burglary, and no recollection of the actual work. Nobody had ever reported it missing, and in fact they hadn't even known of its existence.
While Sotheby's stated that they had let the Blakes know about the painting, and they had no objection to the sale, the Blakes had then decided weeks later that actually they did know it had been stolen and were interested in what was happening. Even worse, they claim that nobody had got in touch with them about it, and the first that they knew about the Painting was when Mrs. Blake had seen it in the newspaper in the States! She was on holiday, and just happened to find it when she was looking for something in the said paper! In other words, it was just a coincidence that she happened to be there at the same time as the sale. In other words she was calling Sotheby's a liar.
Then came the biggest bombshell. They wanted to sell the painting and give Selina just 25 percent of the proceeds.
Selina refused the offer. She was then told that she could sell it, and sort out the problem after the sale. 10 minutes before the painting was sold, she was called to the office and told that it had been withdrawn! Without an injuction, without any form off proof, the other party had stopped the sale!
Simon Murray, Sir Henry's great great grandson, gave an interview on camera stating that actually yes they did know of it, and refused to budge on the issue. When asked why he wanted to sell the painting, he stated that, 'Myrtle Grove, the family house needs a lot of renevating and we need the money for that'! He then went on to make an insulting remark about Selina and her family. He states, ' I feel sorry for her, I really do, I know she wanted the money for a swimming pool or loads of cars'!
This man, who comes from a family that is so wealthy they can jet of around the world just when they feel like it, belittles Selina, who is a kind and loving mother. But Selina held onto her dignity by not responding. Not only is Simon rich, he is also a lawyer. Therefore he knows exactly how to handle the case.
After the sale was stopped, Selina and her family spend the next year trying every way to get Justice. She has even been visited by the Police, who claim she may be prosecuted for theft!
Just over a year later, the Blake family allege that they have found documents, letters that mention the party that the children had gone too, and the description of the clothes they were wearing in the Painting. This, say the Blakes is irrefutable proof that the painting is theirs.
They stated that as it was a family piece then it should automatically come back to the family.
The Outcome
Sadly, there isn't any change on the horizon. Selina and her father, have been offered 25 per cent of the sale, and the rest of the money is to go to the Drakes. That of course is what would happen if Selina agreed.
But she didn't. As she states,' If we hadn't found the painting, it would have been ruined within a couple of days, or even a few hours. We saved it. They knew nothing about it.'
The case is still going on nearly three years after the first visit to the Antique Roadshow. .
Myrtle Grove
Winslow Homer
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My Opinion
I do understand both parties. On retrospect. The Blakes believe it is a family portrait and therefore it should go back to them. Selina believes that as her father found it, and kept it for 20 years, without anyone claiming it, then it belongs to her. The fact is that the Painting ended up in the Rubbish dump somehow. My personal belief is that either the Blakes who live there now, had the house cleared out, and all the rubbish was taken to to rubbish dump.
Or they moved in after their relative had died and they inherited the house. Either way the original owner, for whatever reason, decided at the time, that they didn't want the Painting, along with other goods, and threw them away. There was no burglary, as the Blakes stated in the first place. So surely the law just has to decide whether if you throw something away, have you a claim to it now? I don't know. all I know is that surely they can come to some agreement.
One other thing that I think should be mentioned. If there had been a burglary back in the 80s, and someone had deliberately targeted Paintings, believing they were valuable, then surely the thief would know how famous Homer was? You would not break into a house, steal an old picture without a frame, take it outside, look at it then throw it on the dump! Doesn't make sense, does it?!
Why not just split the money in half. Now there's a thought. The one advantage of all the publicity surrounding the story is that the Painting will increase in price. Maybe that is what the Blake family are hoping for.
Who owns the Painting. You Decide.
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Hi, Leanne, thanks for reading it, I was so mad I went blue! ha ha what made me so mad is the fact that he lied through his teeth! and yet, its obvious to me that if it had been stolen, then the thief would have known about paintings! you don't take a painting without knowing what you are targeting! then to throw it in the rubbish? no, don't think so! I hope she sticks to her guns and holds out, did you know that Simon the grandson actually opens his doors to visitors in the summer? then he said they had no money coming in to restore the place! it was when he said that she 'would by a swimming pool!' arrghhh! lol get me off my soapbox please! hee hee thanks so much nell
Hi Nell, Your comment made me laugh!! I have the exact same sentiments! When he said she would spend it on a pool or a new car it made me so angry. I didn't realise that he opens his doors in the summer, that has made me even more angry! Some people, I am even more set in that the painting should stay with the family that found it!
Amazing story. My heart really goes out to Selina and her family. Not because of the money but the headache the Blakes have caused them.
They do not a claim in my eyes. What if that painting had been sold or given away years ago by the family. It is not right they should benefit again from it.
I would love to hear Selina win on this out of principle.
Hire a lawyer and take it to court.
Hi, Leanne, lol got a bit carried away with it! it just drove me mad! typical of those sort of people, anybody could have owned that painting! they could have given it away years ago! She had better win the case! good for her though for sticking it out, bet that got right up their back, thanks again
Hi, Ddraig, thanks for reading it, yes you are right, I only thought of that when I read your comment, exactly! maybe someone should try and find that person, that would put a spanner in the works! lol thanks so much nell
Hi Will, that's exactly whats going on, really rich fighting a normal girl! typical! thanks again for reading it, cheers nell
Hi Nell, I love the antique roadshow too and old paintings turning up out of the blue are often a highlight. As usual a privileged upbringing and education doesn't guarantee class. Crass is often the outcome and now that those spoilt Blakes have added greed to the equation they'll fight tooth and nail for the booty. A fifty fifty split does seem a fair outcome, although finders keepers was always the rule in my books. The Blakes can sit it out, but so can the Varneys', because right can often go the distance with might. This was an interesting, unfinished hub. See ya.
Hi, attempted, hopefully I will be able to add the verdict to this, I hope the Varneys win the day, makes me so mad! lol thank you again, nell
There's a lot of that disease called greed going around! And lying. I hope Selina wins in court.
Unfortunately, wherever the painting ends up, the only people who will make money on the whole sorry saga are the lawyers for both sides.
I expect someone in The Blake family probably gave the picture away to a builder, or a retiring housekeeper.
It would be interesting if a third party came up with a claim, now that the matter has had such publicity.
Interesting story, thanks Nell for the great hub. My son actually told me about this a couple of days ago. I'm sure the Blakes need the money to repaint their swimming pool or for a service on the Bentley as much as Selina needs to educate her children! Split the money and enjoy it, I'd be happy with that if it were me.
Hi Nell, this tale reminds me of one that involved my brickie mate. It was on a much smaller scale, but it had an outcome. I'll have to ask him if he minds and scrub up on the details first though. Might take a while, but it's an amusing story. Cheers
I think they should just share the money 50-50 as it is most of it going to their lawyers who don't deserve any of it! This another example of greed in action. Thank you for sharing this brilliantly written story.
Have you thought about self publishing your amazing stories? Slarty O'Brian has written a two part hub explaining how and it couldn't be simpler. You could also end up making a few extra bob.
Thank you Nell.
BTW Sister Mary above is my wife and we are both great fans.
I don't think Selina should agree to a 50/50 split. If there had been a burglary, the police would have been called and an investigation launched. As I understand it, none of that happened. In other words, there was no burglary. Obviously the painting was thrown away. It was without a frame too. It's likely they removed the painting from the frame thinking the frame had more value and could be reused.
Sadly though, a wealthy family can afford a lot more in attorney fees than Selina's family and it seems that these days victory goes to those who can pay the most for it. It won't be a matter of justice. But I hope she wins it all.
Ha! I just wrote a hub titled, "The Truth of the Matter is..." Perfect timing!
Hi, Sheila, nice to see you, yes I hope she wins, it seems that the more money they have the more greedy they get! unbelievable! cheers nell
Hi, Christopher, that would put the cat among the pidgeons! I wish someone would come forward and just say they had thrown it away on the orders of the Blakes! ha ha
This debacle about the painting of Winslow Homer, Children under a Palm Tree, is only one of many most interesting articles you have published, Nell. No wonder you have a permanent score of 100.
Hi, Mary, yes you are right! but I think Selina has just had about enough of the greed, so would rather go without than give it to the Blakes! go girl! lol thanks again
Hi, attempted, that sounds interesting, go get the story! ha ha actually something similar happened to me, where a certain bracelet was concerned! lol and guess who won the case? yep, me! thanks again nell
Hi, Spirit, thanks so much! I will go and check him out, and yes I did realise that Mary was your lovely wife, maybe you should put your photo up too? lol or even a shot of both of you as a couple, it would be lovely, thanks again nell
Hi, Susie Writes, yes you could be right! whoever took it obviously thought it was valuable, even if it was the frame! but I believe that they just threw it away when they were having a clear out! typical! hope Selina gets it sorted out, and comes out on top, thanks nell
Hi, Susie, great minds think alike! lol thanks for reading, cheers nell
Hi Martie, Aw thank you! lol I think it is probably just stuck on 100 because I do as I am told! ha ha seriously I think it is because I alway read everybodies everywhere! not the writing! loads of people on here are amazing, including you, thanks so much nell
That grandson should be horsewhipped! As always, a superior read- love it Nell...lily
Well, I think this is a case of greed. Selina should be the lawful owner. Great story Nell. Thank's
Cheers
Oh gee, I don't know! If the people have proof that they have had the picture many years I would say it is theirs. I pick up paintings sometimes at sales and I often wonder without a receipt if I lucked into a treasure could the previous owners claim I stole it? May be! I have a plaque now dated in the 1800s, an advertisement, I have a good feeling about it but haven't checked it out yet. I keep all my things like that in storage though in case of fire etc, I may still have something! lol As usual, interesting write Nell!
Wow, this really makes you think about human Nature - or the lack of. Good job Nell!
Hi, lily, lol yes your right! it seems like he has the upper hand, he is a lawyer! but I hope Selina stands firm and tells him to go away! (politely!) lol thanks again nell
Hi, Ruby, greed always wins out! we shall see! thanks as always nell
Hi, Polly, I don't think they have proof, they have come up with some sort of diary now, but they had nothing to start with, and even if it was in their family, they threw it away! wonder how that works in the courts? strange situation though, thanks again nell
Hi, Chatkath, yes I agree with you, humans have a lot to answer too! thanks again nell
That's a tough choice - I hate it when people war over art. I always figure that the "true" person something like this should go to is the person who wants the best for the object. For more people to see and appreciate it. I believe that anyone seeking to recompense at the expense of art of any kind should never win - but then isn't the point of legal systems to make sure just the opposite happens?
Hi Nell, that is my photo that I use. A student of mine took it and gave it to me as a gift. I have it framed at home.
I love art and I love this hub very much. I know there are many fake paintings outside, even for masterpiece. I don't know why the people do this thing. But I think money is the main reason. Thank you very much for writing and share with us. Good job, Nell. Rated up as always.
Prasetio:)
Greed always destroys any sense at all. If they would split the the money they avoid having all these court costs and they are not cheep. At the end all the money goes there.
Hi, Audrey, sorry it took me so long, been belting around this weekend! lol the painting should be appreciated for what it is, and in this case I believe that it is Selina, they had the picture for over twenty years, looking at it, appreciating it, then storing it safely, on the other hand, the Blakes just want it for the money!! greed greed greed! thanks as always, nell
Hi, Spirit, it is a good one, just wondered if you had one with your wife? (I am just nosy! ha ha )
Hi, Pras thank you as always, take care nell
Hi, Hello hello, yes you are so right! I must admit that Selina will have to decide one day whether to share it or not, hard decision though, but maybe it is time for her to put it behind her, and get on with her life, even though she has to half it, it would still be a lot of money, but I do understand where she is coming from! lol cheers nell
Mien Gott! A Homer painting found in an English trash dump! Finders keepers losers weepers is one thing; but 25%, how generous of the peerage family. My heart goes out to them. Nell, there's a reason why were celebrating the 4th. But on second thought that wouldn't have happened over here unless it was a Rockefeller or similar. So maybe we're not so different after all. Great hub as usual Ms. Nell and you do know about that josh on the misspelled word I hope.
Hi, Alastar, I think the painting should stay with Selina, personally, she did have it for 20 years, but as you say maybe we don't know all the facts, and yes I got the spelling thing! lol I got in a temper with him! hee hee thanks again nell
YOUR AN AWESOME WOMAN! Got an excuse today for a lack of inhibition but its truly, truly true!
Hi, ha ha don't know about that! did you mean I have a lack of inhibition, or you?! lol if so, what have you been up too?! ha ha
Fascinating situation! I'm a bit shocked that there is any question about ownership. It was in a garbage heap! Anyway, great read, Nell!
Hi, SilverGenes, exactly! but somehow the greedy Blakes found out it was worth something and out of the woodwork they came! lol thanks for reading, cheers nell
Hi Nell what a great story. As usual the lawyers will finish up with the bulk of the money lol
But here is an interesting twist to ponder: In my state most of the 'rubbish dumps' are owned by private contractors and as such when 'stuff' is put on the 'rubbish dump property' the ownership is transferred to the owner of the dump.
In this case maybe the dump owner has a claim on the painting?
Hi, agvulpes, I never thought of that! mind you, they did say when they found the painting it was actually just outside the site, hang on a minute! maybe that's why they said it was on the outside! Umm! maybe there is more to this story than I thought! lol thanks again nell
Great story Neil and i agree with your opinion;
if nothing is yet decided they should divide the money in 2 equal parts.
Hi, maria, yes I think that is probably the best thing to do, at least it will get it all finished one way or another, thanks for reading cheers nell
A most interesting article, and a great read. Whenever greed rears its ugly head, there's always drama. I'm rooting for Selina and her family. I wasn't aware of this story so, thank you for sharing...
Hi Nell, what an interesting story, thanks for sharing! I sure do hope the Varney's win, besides, Tony Varney was the one who found and protected the painting all these years. It just amazes me of how the Blake family has never said a word about this painting until now. Wow, 20 years later? All I can say is... greed and lies.
Ha ha Nell! It was the holiday week-end and the inhibition-less one was me. And your still and forever more An Awesome Woman!
Hi, C bless, it is a strange story, holding onto a painting for 20 years and then all the so called real owners pop up! greed! thanks for reading, cheers nell
Hi, angoliver, maybe they should have just kept the painting, or sold it without taking it to the roadshow, then the Blakes wouldn't have known anything about it! thanks for reading, cheers nell
Hi, Alastar, I wonder if the inhibition was caused through a few bevvies? (English speak for drink! lol) and thank you for calling me an Awesome Woman, nobody has done that for a while! hee hee actually not for a long while....! lol
It's a great story. Selina should get her right from the painting selling, or if the dispute can't be settled, the Blakes is the one who deserve 25% of the sale.
Another example of freed at its best. That family didn't care about an apparently worthless painting but won't allow it to bless the people who rescued it. They are showing their true colors. Money cannot buy class. Selina deserves all of the money.
Hi, agusfanani, I quite agree, if anybody should get the 25 percent it should be the Blakes, greed really annoys me! lol thanks for reading, cheers nell
Hi, Hyphenbird, exactly! money definitely cannot buy class, I hope it works out just fine for the rightful owners, and they are not the Blakes! cheers nell
Simon's mother is not Mrs Blake, she is not from male descendant of the Blake family. I suspect she could not produce any legal evident that she ever owned the painting in the first place, such as will, house content insurance. I was surprised that Sothebys stopped the auction without seeing the crucial evidence of ownership.
what infuriated me more is at the end of the programme, Simmon Murray produced the letter wrote by Lady Edith Blake of the children's party, all very touchy. It only explained the circumstane of the painting not the ownership. Lady Edith could have given the painting to any of her children, 2 sons and one daughter,or a devoted nanny right?
Simmon then said we want it back and keep it as a part of family history. He never intented to give Silena a penny.
Surely, A homer is worth mentioning in the will!
Hi, Jade, thanks for reading it, sorry if I have been misinformed about Mrs Blake, If there is anything that I can update, let me know and I will change it. I totally agree with you, I watched the programme and I really got so annoyed that's why I wrote this, I do hope that Selina and her family do get the painting, and can sell it, it does seem so unfair, thanks again nell
Hi, Leo, I totally agree! I can't understand how someone can suddenly appear out of knowhere and stake a claim, Selina should stick it out, then maybe the others will give up their claim, but I doubt it! thanks for reading, cheers nell
Is there anyone who knows the outcome from the last negotiation, that where scheduled in July? I am so curious if Selina and Tony won at last.
Hi, Rebecca, I can't seem to find out any more info, I will keep looking, and if I find it I will update this hub, okay? thanks for reading, cheers nell
I am shocked at the apalling way that young man behaved...and his suggestions that he understood Selina's disappointment because she probably thought she was going to buy a new car or somehting. What a partonising jerk. I would willingly contribute to a fund to help Selina continue her legal fight. She is a dignified and courageous young woman...and he appears to be a fraud. So, just because you have provenance for the pic doesnt mean you own it. How come he never noticed it had disappeared 20 years ago but only when he saw the multiple $$$$ signs that he started his blackmailing 10 minutes before the auction.Despicable!
Hi, Robyne, thank you for commenting, I quite agree with you, the way he handled the situation was disgusting, the whole world knows he is trying to con Selina out of the sale, he even said at the beginning he wanted to sell the painting for money! It just goes to show what sort of world he is living in, if he believes Selina wants the money for a new car or swimming pool! She has children for goodness sake! that would help them to go to college and maybe learn a trade. I hope it turns out alright for her, I will have to go and keep an eye out and update this when I have more info, thanks nell
One would imagine a catalogue of all art works belonging to the Myrtle Grove residence would exist.
There is no mention of any other paintings of course Lady Edith an amateur artist herself evidently having a great appreciation art (and artists) would have had numerous valuable and greatly sentimental personal and commissioned pieces?
Where and what was the contents of the portfolio?
Simons theory is all over the place – didn’t know; don’t want to know; who knows?? But more than likely Simon probably had a garage sale/ yard sale with no appreciation for any of the Myrtle Grove possessions he knows nothing but greed.
Anyone with great standing lineage of this calibre would never stoop so low to take from a mother who has shown mercy to a neglected piece of paper containing - a picture illustrating children. No monetary value sort when found but merely family idealism.
I would say Simon Murray the great grandson of this fairytale is nothing more than a gluttonous pig with no principles who has no remorse or compassion for this situation or people involved.
It won't cost the Blakes much for a lawyer as the rude, ignorant great great granson is one! How pompous is he? Go for it Selina. Get the nmoney and use it for your family. All the best.
Hi, Thank you Tiffany and Barb, for your comments and reading, I quite agree, Simon may have breeding and wealth but obviously manners were'nt in the package! Just for his own dignity he should drop the whole thing, he reminds me of a dog with a bone in its mouth! screaming, its mine, its mine! pathetic! thanks again nell
Maybe if Tony Varney, the gentleman who had 'found' the pictures had reported it to the Garda - the Irish Police - as you do when you find a wallet or other items of value, then maybe this whole situation would not have arisen. As Mr.Varney was a pains to point out, that he did not find the paintings at or in the dump but outside the confines of the dump, maybe if Mr. Varney had thought more about who did have a claim on the paintings, as opposed to who didn't have a claim on the pictures, then this matter might have been resolved earlier. However, What disturbs me about your article, is the lack of balance when considering both parties, indeed,your article is wholly biased towards Selina Varney and you portray Mr. Murray and his family as greedy fat cats with spurious claims to the pictures. Indeed, Mr. Murray and co. seemed to have had their rights - whatever they are - expunged due to their social status and Mr. Murray's profession. Whereas, you imbue Selina Varney with propriety rights due to her lack of social station. The courts and English justice or maybe Irish justice will have to figure this one out. Just let me state, I'm not a Toff, I'm not a lawyer and I don't own no grand country estate, I'm working class but I like to think of myself as being fair and unbiased. Report the facts, not your own prejudices.
Hi, No Artist, I appreciate your comments, and in some sense I do agree. However Tony Varney found the picture covered in mud and thrown on the ground. Obviously it had been taken to the dump but had somehow ended up on the ground just outside. Probably people had trampled it and maybe caught it on their shoes. Answer me a question? Would you report an old painting covered in mud, from a dump to the police? Thought not. You have to remember that there was 20 years between finding the painting and trying to sell it! you obviously haven't watched the tv programme or you would be aware of the fact that even the painting experts more or less said that Mr Murray was lying! I have reported as the tv programme stated it, nothing more, and nothing less, the comments above will show other peoples reaction to this situation too. Mr Murray more or less admitted that he wanted the painting only to sell it, and at first said that he knew nothing of the painting! then he retracted and said he did know of the painting and it was stolen! but thank you for your opinion, I agree we should have a balanced comment section, nell
Goes to show that there are a lot of lies in this world, even rich people lie for money. If they weren't informed about its value, they wouldn't have cared for it. Money talks, all the time. :)
HI, BeatsMe, yes you are so right, I actually looked up his site to see where he lives etc, and evidently they open the doors to the paying public every summer! can't be that poor then! there argument is that, 'our house takes such a lot of up keep, we need the money' well, if you are broke sell the family home like me and my brother had too! no sympathy from me! lol thanks as always, nell
Sounds like class war to me.
Hi, No Artist, maybe you are right, but I think it is greed that is pushing the whole thing. desperation on the part of Simon because he wants to live the same way he has always lived, and Selena because all she wants to do is give her children a good start in life. it will be interesting to see what happens. personally I think they should just split the money down the middle and get on with their lives. greed is a funny thing, maybe Selina is beginning to get tainted with it too, thanks again
I agree, neither knew what they really had, but I don't see either of them moving, so in the end, the only winners will be Southebys and the lawyers. I have to admit, I didn't like the picture, I preferred Mr. Murray's gg grandmother's paintings and I would like to think he pursues the other, less valuable items with the same vigour he has put into regaining the Winslow Homer. I had a look at Myrtle Grove on the net and I'm not sure whatever money Mr Murray gets from the sale of the watercolour, will go far in maintaining that 'money pit'. It looks as the real-estate people say, 'a fixer upper'. :(
Hi, No Artist, I agree, that picture will stay there for as long as it takes, and the one thing that was puzzling me is how is Selena going to pay for the ongoing legal fees? if this keeps going, even if she is given the painting, the whole of the money she earns will go to them! I think Myrtle Grove is as you said. It literally must take thousands for the upkeep of the place. I tried looking online to see if there is any results out yet, but don't seem to be able to find anything. If I do, I will keep you posted, thanks again nell
This painting should certainly go to the family who found it. They did save it and the Blakes don't really have any connection to the painting's subjects. Sure, they MIGHT be ancestors, but they never knew The Children Under a Palm and it seems never had any interest in them before this valuable piece was discovered.
Hi, crystal, I quite agree, it will be interesting to see exactly what happens, it doesn't seem to be coming up on the internet, but I will have another look, thanks!
Whoever separated the discarded painting from its frame must have thought the frame was worth more than the painting and they probably never heard of Homer who had some fame in the U.S.
Proving the children are from the Blake family does not prove they own it.
As I said earlier the painting many have been legally sold by a descendant of the Blake's and for a deserved low price, it's nothing special. I think many people today don't necessarily place sentimental value on possessions passed to them but only monetary value. It was a water color in need of restoration, I would have certainly discarded it, without knowing its history.
Harper's magazine often did not cite Winslow Homer as the artist for pictures that they published. He was sometimes referred to as their "Special Artist".
Winslow started as an illustrator who became a self taught artist.
When the ''three children under the palm tree'' was painted in 1885, there was no reason to assume Winslow was a great painter. He was able to support himself by 1900 and this is after the Blakes returned. So it seems to me the painting was just an illustration in water color that would not have had a commercial value.
The value comes now and well after Homer's death. During the early ownership of this painting, it wasn't valuable and may have been easily sold by a descendant of the Blakes.
It was never reported stolen and if they knew it was stolen, why would they bother, it was worthless.
Hi, Albert, I never thought of that, of course, it makes sense. We always believe that a painting has always had a value, and of course this isn't so, yes I agree, it was sold off years ago, and forgotten about. If only this could be proved then the whole case would fall to pieces. Thanks for taking time to comment, nell
If the painting was stolen (and separated from the frame), why wasn't it destroyed, why was it placed on a rubbish tip where the possible theft could start a police investigation.
The finder did not rush out to have it framed, it spent many years in an attic. The signature on the painting is the one and only thing that gives it a good value and it took an expert to recognise it and have it authenticated.
It seems the Blake descendants never had the painting valued, they must have thought it was a worthless watercolor. My paintings are valued and insured.
Where's the frame? Did the police investigate? Is it framing other (better) art at Myrtle Grove? do any of Blake's descendants have it?
Was the painting or its frame sold to pay for the maintenance of Myrtle Grove?
Simon Murray can't prove a theft nor explain its disappearance, so the only possible conclusion is that it was sold or given away as a gift.
When Murray presented a dossier of old letters to the Fake or Fortune presenters, he was only confirming what we already knew, it was an authentic portrait, he was trying to assert that confirms ownership.
If a painting is stolen, report it to Police then visit the Art Loss Register website, it's so easy.
Normally with household property insurance, the Homer painting should have been listed otherwise no insurance company would refund its value if it was stolen or lost in a fire. I doubt there is any record the family owned it when it was found at the rubbish tip. Certainly it's an authentic family portrait, but Selina is the rightful owner and the family represented by Simon Murray should pay all her legal costs. However as we all know, the Courts aren't fair.
Hi, Albert you have some good points there, if they can trace the original frame then they will see what exactly happened, for example taken off the painting, then throw it away, and add a new one placing this on the dump. What gets me the most is that if Simon wasn't a lawyer or solicitory, he would have lost this case a long time ago, the courts should decide, if they have any sense whatsoever that Selina is the rightful owner, thanks again nell
So if a Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs had agreed to pose for me back when they were nobodies as practice for the photography class I was taking in college, and now they're really really famous and I'm a long dead world-famous photographer and Sotheby's is going to auction the photo for my kids, can the Gates kids or Jobs' widow claim ownership and stop the sale? I know it's not *quite* the same, but makes about as much legal sense as the Blakes coming forward and trying to bilk Selina for no other reason than they're greedy pond scum. I hope she wins!
Some Homers, btw, have sold for 2 million pounds! After googling other stories about this mess, I'm of the opinion that Simon Murray and his mother attach NO familial sentimental value to the Homer, know all the publicity will drive up the price, and have every intention of selling it the minute they can get their greedy little hands on it. Therefore, the "cleanest" way to have settled the dispute early on would have been for Murray to pay Selina 150,000 pounds after she signed away any right to the painting.
As it is, he's just showing the world how little the family knew about the contents of Myrtle House. Supposedly the place was burgled several times in the '80s, but never reported. Hello.
One blog even claims Selina and her father **knew** the Homer was stolen and simply hid it for 20 years until it could be sold without attracting attention. The flaw in THAT theory is obvious. Even the dumbest of thieves wouldn't take a piece of stolen artwork to a wildly popular TV program like Antiques Roadshow, let alone place it with Sotheby's.
Nell, unless you can prove the Blakes/Murrays have propagated this claim that Selina and/or her father knew the painting to be stolen, I would have thought it a little reckless to defame a lawyer and his family in such a public forum.
I wonder when Youghal's Town Council will stake it's claim - maybe when the picture's value hits a million quid (sorry, 1137573.21 euros)?
Ciao
Hi, No Artist, yes you are right, I think the reason why I let everybody have free reign is because I have read on other sites about this more or less the same kind of comments, but I agree, I will go back and check to see if there are any I should take off, not sure about the Euro's we don't have them here we have pounds, thanks again nell
Nell, don't waste your time checking to see if you should remove anyone's comment here. My guess is No Artist is a TROLL just trying to stir up trouble where there is none. He/she/IT is no doubt referring to MY comment, and would do well to re-read it. Nowhere in it do *I* claim the Blake/Murrays propagated the story that Selina and/or her father knew the painting was stolen, etc. I only passed on what I read on a blog by someone with NO connection to Hubpages.
Unless someone can show different, what I said in no way violates HP's TOS nor does it in ANY way constitute **actionable slander** (the legal term, I believe) by myself OR you as the author of the hub.
Hi, Jama, to be sure I took a couple of my comments off, not quite sure whether I myself said anything, but the facts stand, so it should be okay, I don't think he was referring to you specifically probably most of us, as you say there are so many blogs out there that are saying worse! I will keep my comments until the Blakes ask me to take them down! thanks again nell
To suggest that Selina and her father knew the painting was stolen is farcical. If the painting was legally disposed of, then one might suggest the 'theft' is with the other party. The facts are clear, Simon Murray can not prove theft nor what happened to the painting while in the care of the previous owner and it is they who smelled the cash when the painting went to auction. Why did they wait till the last moment? why did they involve lawyers? a legal bill could be more than the value of the painting. Personally, the painting is nothing special.
Hi, Albert, I think you got the wrong idea, we both agree that the painting should go to Selina, and that the Blakes are just greedy. Jama, above was referring to another site that I have read as well, not hubpages just another one that wrote about this story, and they are saying that they believe Selina's father knew it was stolen, its a load of rubbish, unless Selina was psychic it would'nt even cross their minds, why wait twenty years?!! and then go on tv? I don't know who wrote the other article but they seriously need to get their facts right, so Jama, above was just stating that the article writer was obviously slightly out of touch with reality! lol we hope Selina wins, its about time it got sorted out, cheers nell
Well said, Nell! ;D
Hi Nell, I seemed to have ignited some rather high and unsavoury feelings amongst some of your bloggers, that wasn't my intention. However, the general consensus of this site seems to be that the Blakes and in particular Mr Murray are loathsome 'fat cats' and therefore should strung up by the thumbs and/or pillared in the stocks. But I wonder if we would feel the same if the Homer Winslow painting had been removed from our home? I doesn't matter that Selina or her father didn't remove it from the house, the fact is that it had been removed. I remember having my shed broken into and it didn't look like anything was stolen but it was only when I went to find particular tools that I realised that they had been taken, indeed, I may only find out that others tools have been stolen, when I look for them in the future. If the picture had been sold via dealer and not been exhibited on the Antiques Roadshow, and all that followed, would the Blakes have known the painting and the other articles were missing - probably not. But just because you don't know your stuff has been nicked, doesn't mean, it isn't yours. I go back to an earlier point, if Selina's father had taken the folder to the police, as you should do, this matter would have solved years ago. The Blakes would either have claimed the picture as their own, or informed the police who the picture had been sold/given to or informed the police that they had thrown it out and Selina's dad was welcome to it. The fact Selina's dad didn't take this course of action, makes me think he didn't find it outside the rubbish dump but rather within the confines of the dump. Why else wouldn't you do the honest thing and take it to the police?
Hi, no problem, we are all entitled to our own beliefs about this. did you actually see the TV program? on there Simon said that not only was it not stolen and reported, he also said that he didn't even know of its existance until the Antique road show got in touch with him. Also Selina and her dad said that the painting was without a frame and just chucked on the floor, I have seen the exact area on tv, and it is outside the dump, in fact it is right along the water front where they went fishing, probably got stuck on someones shoes I would expect, and dragged out of the yard, they had no reason to go into the dump, as it was up a long drive way and around the back of the buildings, but the gate and place where they found it was by the river, the tv people walked the route to prove their point, you have to remember that the TV people who were involved in the sale of the painting all believed Selina and her father, in fact Simon and the rest of the Blakes told a bare faced lie to the TV Antique Dealer, saying that the Dealer had not been in contact with the blakes, when in fact, on camera the Dealer was very angry and said empathically that he had, he was fuming! so, even the antique dealers, tv people and selina and her father all know he was lying, thanks again nell
I don't think we did watch the same program, but I'm not going to go into that but rather, for the second time, you have ignored the fact that Tony Varney is wholly responsible for all that has transpired, since the painting was 'found'. If Varney had acted as an honest man, this matter would have been resolved to everyone's sanctification twenty years ago, but he didn't. Nell, you will be glad to hear that this the last time I'll visit your blog and have to put my reasons down, as the lack of balance in this story and your biased to those more fortunate than yourself. Nell, I'm surprised that you haven't organised the 'peasants', with flaming torches in hand, to storm Myrtle Grove and divvy up the rest of the Blakes possessions. Personally, I hope both parties show some common sense and agree to a fifty/fifty split, before all the money, this silly painting would fetch, is blown on legal fees. "Goodbye and thanks for all the nice fish."
Hi, sorry you feel like that but the facts stand.
1. The painting had been thrown away.
2. The blakes said on camera that they had not had a robbery.
3. have you never found anything in a bin that you have taken home? this was a tatty picture thrown away with lots of other cheap pictures, it was one of about 10 that he found, just chucked on the floor.
4. Simon admitted that if it wasn't worth anything he didn't want it.
5. and last of all Simon lied and lied again on Camera to such an extent that even the TV Dealers thought it was disgusting.
6. Simon insulted Selina by saying, 'she just wants to buy lots of cars and swimming pools'! nothing about bringing her children up to have a better future.
7. Simon said, 'mother just happened to be here, and happened to spot it in a newspaper'! Lie. She had been informed weeks before but said she wasn't interested.
Its nothing to do with how rich or poor you are. its to do with fairness. The Blakes could have split that money down the middle by now, but no, greed makes them want nearly all of it.
The main fact again is, it was on or near the dump. It had not been stolen. Fact.
The blakes probably threw it away themselves. now they want it back. or maybe the people living there before them sold it, and they threw it away later after thinking it was worthless.
Yes, it's all about fairness. But I must address No Artist's contention that the Varneys should have taken the artwork they found outside the dump to the police. I can't think of any local-level law enforcement agency with the time or resources to accept *every* discarded painting, watercolor or pen and ink drawing in case it's stolen. It's not LE's job to verify the provenance of artwork UNLESS the original owner has reported a theft AND listed the items taken **in a reasonable amount of time after the event**. No claim of theft was made by the Blakes until they learned, 20-some years later, that the Homer WAS a Homer and therefore worth a lot of money.
This is where personal responsibility comes in. The Blakes had no idea a valuable painting of their ancestors by a famous artist was even gone until 20-some years later? Come on. No previous generation had ever inventoried the contents of the house (or had them appraised) for tax or insurance purposes? Puhleaze.
And why have no household staff at the time of the supposed "thefts" come forward or been sought out for interviews? The lord or lady of the manor might not have any recollection of the circumstances surrounding the disposition of an art object, but you can bet the maid who had to dust it every day would certainly remember what frame a painting was in and where it hung in the house. Unless, of course, the Homer had been relegated to the attic or the cellar decades ago as being of "no value" so the frame could be re-used, and then discarded in a clean out by a new generation.
Which I'm thinking is precisely what happened here. The old Lord of the Manor dies, the kiddies take over, staff is ordered to "get rid of all that old stuff", and at least one very valuable painting ends up on the trash heap. Had the Varneys no come along, the Homer would've succumbed to the elements and been lost forever.
The descendants of Sir Henry are living proof that class has *nothing* to do with "breeding" or the size of one's bank account. REAL class is doing the "honorable* thing regardless of the amount of money involved.
Bravo'! couldn't of said it better myself! lol
The sad truth is that Murray has the power to prevent any future sale, but not the proof to say that the painting wasn’t given away or traded for “services” or thrown in the garbage. He won’t take her to court because he can not win, but he will not let her sell if he can get something out of it. Unfortunately, eventually, he will wear her down.
Hi, Mark, thanks for reading, I believe you are right, the one advantage I suppose is that the more valuable the painting gets, the more money will be involved. So then hopefully Selina and her family will accept a percentage of the Sale which will come to a lot more than the original 30,000 pounds that she hoped for in the first place, thanks nell
Simon Murray looks a lot like the child on the right, square head, ear lobes, hair and face. I have little doubt he is from the same family.
Hi, Albert, nice to hear from you again, maybe you are right, I wish I could find out more info, but it seems to have dried up, but I will update when I can find anything, okay? have a great day, nell
Your opinion seems well supported as the previous owner of Myrtle Grove died in 1989 slightly before the painting was found and it seems likely that the Murrays disposed of it in a clean out. see: The lie of the land: journeys through literary Cork - Page 36 http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PL1YhI3Rp1cC&p
Hi, Bloodhound, thanks for the link, that does explain a lot if thats what happened, I do wish they would just split the money, seems to me that the more money and power someone has the less they feel for the unfortunate other person, maybe being more rich makes the person more greedy! I will take a look at the link, and thanks again, nell
Nell, I followed Bloodhound's link to the book at google, which - surprise? - tickled my genealogical curiosity. It might make it a bit easier to keep this mess straight if one knows who begat who.
The BLAKEs relationship to Simon MURRAY begins on p. 2190 at thepeerage.com:
Sir Henry Authur BLAKE & Edith Bernal-Osbourne (Lady Blake)
..(dau) Olive BLAKE m. Maj. "Jack" ARBUTHNOT
....(grandson) Bernard ARBUTHNOT m. Rosemary Thompson
......(gr-granddau) Shirley ARBUTHNOT & Ormiston MURRAY
........(gr-gr-gson) Simon MURRAY, b. 2 Aug 1974
Olive Blake is the figure in the center of the Winslow Homer. Her younger brothers, Maurice and Arthur, are on either side.
Olive's mother Edith (Lady Blake) was an artist, and the family always assumed "Children Under The Palm Tree" was *her* work. Therefore I can't help but chuckle that the three paintings the Varneys found with the Homer *were* hers but which appraisers at Antiques Roadshow deemed of "no value"!
Olive's dau Patricia, younger sister of Bernard, and husband Francis COCKBURN were parents of Patrick COCKBURN. Patrick, great-grandson of Sir Henry and Edith (Lady Blake), relates some rather interesting information about them and the Homer at
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/ar
However, I can find no explanation for why Patricia inherited Myrtle Grove before her older brother Bernard, grandfather of Simon Murray. It wasn't until Patricia died in 1989 that it finally went to Bernard's dau Shirley and/or her son Simon. Perhaps Bernard never wanted anything to do with Myrtle Grove or anything in it??? Just a thought... ;D
Hi, wow! thanks, I did take a quick look, but I had so much to do yesterday and today, I never really got around to figuring it out. Now it makes sense, to a certain degree, I never realised that the other paintings were so important! thanks for sorting it out for me! lol! I will go and take a look at your link, and thanks again, nell
The Murrays cutting Selena Varney out of all but a pittance of the profits from the sale of the Homer - IF it is ever sold - makes sense when you know that Edith, Lady Blake, once tried to take possession, at gunpoint, of a house once owned by her side of the family she believed she should've inherited, but was sold to an "outsider" instead. It was the new owner she confronted at gunpoint.
Sotheby's, btw, cancelled the auction of the Homer at the last minute because, in light of the ownership dispute between the Murrays and the Varneys, they wouldn't be able to guarantee a clear title to the highest bidder if the auction took place. This is standard policy for an institution of Sotheby's standing, not a result of last-minute pressure from the Murrays. Really no different than a real estate agent having to withdraw a deceased's house from the market when heirs are contesting the will.
Hi, JamaGenee, sorry it took so long for me to come back, I have been writing all day, and in emails to the resipients mother too, so I didn't answer because I was getting tied up in a knot over photos! lol! After reading about Edith, nothing suprises me! but I do understand about Sotheby's, they have to do it by the book, wish something would pop up on google though, I want to know whats happened! lol! thanks again nell
Nell, no need to apologize. Yes, I wish something new would pop up on google, too, but think a chat with Patrick Cockburn would be MUCH more enlightening. ;D
Hi,JamaGenee, yes your right! but still I am going to be keeping an eye out for anything, won't give up on it! lol!
This was such an interesting hub Nell! I do see how both sides could feel that they were in the right--but it is a shame to have the fighting go on for so long!
Hi, Audrey, I totally agree, I believe greed is beginning to take hold of both of the parties now, surely they can get it sorted out some way? It's such a shame that a beautiful painting is hidden away like this, thanks so much for reading, cheers nell
Just watched a re-run of the BBC programme and having done due diligence I was wondering whether the same due diligence was accorded to the so called letters of proof of authenticity.
Nell, either you added the photo of Simon Murray since I was last here or I simply missed it in previous visits, politeness prevents me from saying exactly what his expression and body language reminds me of. So "public school boy brought up on a steady diet of generational greed who'll never grasp the true value of a pound (dollar) as anything but a method of measuring self-worth" will have to suffice. ;D
Hi, Caroe, yep totally agree! Wasn't it such a wonderful coincidence that he 'happened' to find proof, and he 'happened' to use the words literally reading out that the costume was like this, and they sat there and so on, I have one word for that, bunkum! lol! thanks for reading, nell
Hi, Jama nice to see you, I was going to come over to your hubs the other day, and then totally forgot! lol! My left handedness, and my right brain, thats what I blame it on! Yes I totally agree, he has that typical smug self rightous look on his face as if to say, me, me, me, never ever you! as my mum would have said, he looks like he has a dirty smell under his nose! the rest of us commoners! haha! thanks as always, be over shortly, nell
Leanne1783 11 months ago
Great hub, I watched the TV programme the other night about the painting. I thought it was very unfair that they were allowed to pull the sale of the painting from the auction right at the last minute as another party had claimed ownership. If the painting had not been rescued it would be ruined and there would be no issue. I felt an instant dislike to the great grandson and his attitude to toward the family. I personally think the family that found the painting should be entitled to the total amount especially as there was no evidence of a burglary.